Is life meaningless if we don't have any freewill?

Question

Is life meaningless if we don't have any freewill? If we are just an accountant working for a multi-national corporation? A student in a school of thousands? A cashier of a restaurant chain that is worldwide?

I'd like arguments from both sides. I want to write an essay on this, but I don't know the right answer.

A kind of odd example would be the Thomas the Tank Engine show. Is his life meaningless because he was stuck on railways and could not forge his own path? His fate is determined by the conductor?

Answer 1

Is life meaningless if we don't have any freewill?



~~~ I'm willing to examine this question one... more... time!

First; 'meaning'.

All 'meaning' exists as 'thought'. We perceive 'thought' just like we perceive any and everything else!

'Free-will' also exists solely as 'thought'.

Now, we can perceive all sorts of 'meaning' ('thoughts of meaning') relating to all sorts of things in life; patterns of stars, people's glances, the number of leaves on a particular branch at midnight of the new year, and on and on... At no point in this example is the 'thought' of 'free-will' an essential in the perception of 'thoughts of meaning'.



Of course if your definition of 'meaning' necessarily includes that ego stroke (ego = thought! one and the same!) of a 'belief-thought of free-will', then, to you, life would be meaningless without (the 'thought' of) 'free-will'.

Understand?





If we are just an accountant working for a multi-national corporation? A student in a school of thousands? A cashier of a restaurant chain that is worldwide?



~~~ A unique Perspective of the Universe/Reality''Self!'!? That's what you are, who you are. You perceive a unique view of Reality every moment of existence! You be mindful and pay attention and you experience perpetual 'Self!' Knowledge! The 'Universe' unfolding, blossoming into Consciousness every moment of existence! Where do 'thoughts' of 'free-will' come into play here? Or 'thoughts' of meaning? They are there and are perceived, they are not and there is nothing to perceive.

Personally, I perceive no such 'belief-thought' as 'free-will/choice'.

Not anything, not any one of those moments can be 'changed', ever! What is, is, every moment of existence, Now!

From the Perspective of science and philosophy, the notion of 'free-will' is unsupportable, and fails in paradox. Every time. Yet everything exists! But this notion of 'free-will' ONLY exists as 'thought'.

In 'belief-land' (religion), on the other hand, anything goes (the FSM, Jesus, levitation, whatever...), and imagining yourself a 'godlet' with powers and abilities to alter the universe in accord with what usually boils down to your own personal comfort, might be an 'egoically' pleasant way to spend an 'insecure' afternoon!





I'd like arguments from both sides.



~~~ As this is a philosophy site, there is no effective 'pro' 'free-will' side. It fails completely, scientifically and philosophically.





I want to write an essay on this, but I don't know the right answer.



~~~ "All statements are true in some sense, false in some sense, meaningless in some sense, true and false in some sense, true and meaningless in some sense, false and meaningless in some sense, and true and false and meaningless in some sense." -Robert Anton Wilson





A kind of odd example would be the Thomas the Tank Engine show. Is his life meaningless because he was stuck on railways and could not forge his own path? His fate is determined by the conductor?



~~~ You are not a 'creator'! You do not "forge" your own path. You (we all) are 'perceivers'/unique Perspectives, and perceive what 'Is'; not 'forge' it!

From a religious Perspective (the 'belief-land' where 'free-will' exists), the belief in free-will is the sin of pride! Should you ever have the blessing of meeting someone truly virtuous, truly humble, ask him what he thinks of 'free-will'!



"Whoso has three things is beloved of God. The first is riddance of goods; the second, of friends, and the third is riddance of self." - Meister Eckhart



"Know that no man in this life ever gave up so much that he could not find something else to let go. Few people, knowing what this means, can stand it long, and yet it is an honest requital, a just exchange. To the extent that as you eliminate self from your activities, God comes into them - but not more and no less. Begin with that, and let it cost you your uttermost. In this way, and no other, is true peace to be found." - Meister Eckhart



The 'self' to which he refers, is that 'ego/thought-belief' construct of a distinct 'I/me/self' is 'the little godlet that could' alter the Universe in accord with 'my' will be done, amen! Commonly called ego trippin'! *__-

Pride.



"The complete Universe (Reality/Truth/God/'Self!'/Tao/Brahman... or any feature herein...) can be defined/described as the synchronous sum-total of all Perspectives!" - Book of Fudd

ALL INCLUSIVE!!!



'Meaning' is where you find it.

Like lemonade!



(Use this as food for thought, if you must, but don't plagiarize my work for your essay! It is here first, dated, and if the teacher does any kind of search, he'll find this!!)

Answer 2

Life can be as meaningful as one wishes it to be. The energies (wishes, prayers, etc.) you put out into the universe is what you get back in return. The key is to be open and consistent with what you put forth.



Thomas has plenty of meaning in his 'life'. He helps the other engines as best as he can and is pleased with himself to do so. In some episodes, Thomas lets other vehicles know that he prefers his tracks (read as: faith and focus) over there unguided ( read as: freewill) roads or airways.



One must understand that whether you are an anonymous face at any multi this or that, a student number, a cashier for a billion burgers sold, one does not have to do those things. Freewill says you can do something else entirely. No matter what you do you will always be anybodies nobody at some level or another, but that should not change the core of the human spirit.

Answer 3

If we don't have any freewill, then obviously there is some kind of force that is controlling us. The example of the show poses the same question. Who is this conductor, and why are they controlling us? It would seem logical for there to be some sort of purpose behind that.



I think life could still be meaningful even if we don't have freewill.

Answer 4

Hard to say. But if you didn't have free will, you probably wouldn't even be thinking about 'meaning' right? But from what I can conclude, just because we don't have free will - given that we don't - doesn't mean it's meaningless.

Let's talk about machines. They don't really have free will and are only programmed to do what they are told right? Well, that doesn't mean they're not meaningless; their purpose, as we have made them, is to help mankind achieve a certain thing or cause.



I believe in free will just to let you know. And whether no free will is a good or bad thing is out of the question, or at least your question. xD But I hope this gives you something to write about.



Edit: Shlomo simplified it for me, thanks.

Answer 5

Life can be meaningless, even if we had freewill.

Answer 6

we have no life until we realize there is but one will and live in the now.

The past is gone the future is not yet come, the only time we are consciously aware and fully alive is in the "NOW".

Answer 7

It could be meaningful, but the meaning is for somebody else.