Question:
Can anybody help clarify why Plato was opposed to Democracy?
Mason
2006-12-17 08:20:04 UTC
Im writing an essay, I just need the main points of his argument against it. So far I have:
- Democracy was the reason for Socrates death, whom Plato loved.
- The time he was growing up Athens, a Democractic state, lost the war against its neighbour Sparta. This didn't please Plato with the politics of his home.

I got some his texts, and a complete works book plus other texts on Plato, if you could give me the main points, Ill try and find them in my books. Does anybody know which parts of Karl Poppers book to refer to as an argument against Plato's Republic? - whomever answers this one stands a chance of being picked for top answer. If you desire the points.
Twelve answers:
Richard E
2006-12-17 08:38:02 UTC
Socrates was not executed for preaching democracy. He was executed for corrupting the youth of Athens by teaching them to think for themselves by asking questions, called the Socratic method.



Plato felt that the state should be run by experts in politics. Just as you would not take your shoes to be repaired to the plumber, you should not allow the leader to be chosen by plumbers and others who don't understand anything about politics and whose tiny minds are easily manipulated by Sophists (as in advertisers).



Observe how Juniorbush's dubious service in the National Guard flying obsolete aircraft and then failing to report for service in the Alabama Guard was somehow depicted in his ads as in some ways more patriotic than the service of John Kerry, who was actually shot at and wounded.



People who voted for Juniorbush because they thought he was "more patriotic" were the sort Plato thought should not be choosing a government.



Or does anyone really believe that Vietnam would have been a victory had Kerry and Juniorbush done Sgt York style heroics?



The actual problem is how to determine how to keep morons off the voting roles. Not as easy as it might seem.
Doctor Why
2006-12-17 09:28:09 UTC
In the Republic, Plato also points out that he believes a democracy to be unstable.



First he argues that the people will tend to vote themselves only what is pleasing to them. If people don't like wars they won't have them, if they do they likewise will. No one has to exercise authority and no one has to submit to it, if that is the will of the people. In this wise, he views democracy is being fairly close to anarchy.



Then there is the second danger. Since in a democracy, whatever is popular goes, what happens if someone is inordinately popular? It is only a matter of time, he thinks, before some charismatic fellow takes office and then get anything he wants. And since power corrupts, it is only logical that the charismatic should alter the democracy slightly to better suit his particular needs instead of the needs of the people. And from there it is a very short slide until the state is nothing less that a full-blown tyranny.



I have to say, in some respects Plato has some very good points here. People who live in a democracy would do very well to fear these two extremes presented: anarchy in non-leadership, and tyranny in the presence of a particularly influential leader.



There are those who would argue that America, for example, has had many examples of both. And some not too long ago.



Hope that helps!
?
2006-12-18 10:59:05 UTC
Will cover the main points that you wish to uncover Quote When we come to consider the political theories which arose out of conditions of the city states . It is clear that in the hands of men like Socrates and Plato philosophy was usurping the place which according to the ideas of some religion ought to occupy the minds of men. Greek religion , or at least the official Olympian worship as defined by Homer, Hesiod, and the Tragic Poets, had never attained much influence over the morality of its worshippers . But now philosophy was definitely claiming to teach virtue . Not only sophists like Protagoras and Hippias, but even philosophers like Socrates and Plato, claimed to put right conduct on the basis of knowledge , and therefore of education . Hence followed the arguable conclusion that virtue was for the rich and well-born . philosophy looked snobbish from the start; it tended to exclude all but the select few from any chance of salvation , and, if it had its way, would have excluded them from any political rights whatever.. this is a small transcript from The glory that was Greece By J,C Stobart from Sidgwich & Jacksons Great civilisations series hope this helps you
2016-05-23 06:00:19 UTC
The Republicans have pumped more money and support into the communist China system than any administration in history (only the Reagan administration comes close), thus your observation is unwarranted and is simply a lie. Besides, democracy is not mutually exclusive to capitalism as the means of economic growth. China is communistic and capitalism flourishes. True democracy is best suited in an economic system rooted in socialism, as fair play depends on measures set forth to level the playing field and create equality in opportunity.
2006-12-20 00:22:12 UTC
Democracy took Hitler to power, Democracy took Bush to Power. Need more examples?. The reason why Plato opposed to Democracy is because the general population is ignorant and greek had the idea that the more ignorant the people were the worse people were.
Savaran
2006-12-17 08:38:22 UTC
Plato was only opposed to absolute democracy. It was Plato's influence on others like David Hume and John Locke that led to the development of our modern democracy with the all important independent judiciary. Remember that Plato saw his mentor Socrates put to death by a democratic tribunal. I think he would be impressed with our constitutional system of checks and balances against the tyranny of the masses.

One can only think of what would have happened after September 11th, if absolute popular democracy reigned free without any check on it's authority....wait a minute.....nevermine
2006-12-19 12:54:48 UTC
I think Plato was looking for a better system of rule than than what he saw as the rule of the mob. I do not believe that he would be opposed to democracy as we know it.

In those days a demagogue such as Demosthenes could whip up the general populous to do his bidding by his rhetoric.
Chintot
2006-12-19 14:36:09 UTC
* plato was not against democracy per se but against to absolute democracy

* he was concerned about mob rule (in which rationality is discarded - and rationality is teh backbone of the socratic method of which he was a disciple)

* he was also concerned by teh delays in reaching decisions which then in turn delayed implementation of policy (sparta was not a democracy and therefore not hampered by such delays to its executive powers - something which some athenians may have later coveted for they thought it contributed to their defeat)

* karl popper refers to the methodology of the scientific method as being the model to follow to seek knowledge with physics and maths being at the top and pseudo-sciences such as sociology and psychlogy etc at the bottom (but nevertheless included)

*i also believe popper was a ----- the word eludes me but means only believed in what was tangible or measurable

* popper's theory of the scientific method was deflated by thomas kuhn who argued about paradigms and closed scientific communities rather than open sharing of knoeldge being waht science was now about.

* i would apply from his theries that popper was also against true democracy (a bit of an orwellian thing that some are more equal than others) but was for transparency of rule.
Trish
2006-12-19 15:08:36 UTC
you should go to wikipedia this has a good section about plato hope this helps
2006-12-19 11:47:13 UTC
Must have known about Bush.
2006-12-19 13:09:00 UTC
Because he could foretell **** ups?????
2006-12-20 08:58:37 UTC
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Plato

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Western Philosophy

Ancient philosophy



Plato - (ca. 427-347 B.C.)

Name: Plato

Birth: c.427–428 BC

Death: 347 BC

School/tradition: Platonism

Main interests: Metaphysics, Epistemology, Ethics, Aesthetics, Politics, If Education, Philosophy of mathematics, Metaphilosophy

Notable ideas: Platonic realism

Influences: Socrates, Archytas, Democritus, Parmenides, Pythagoras

Influenced: Almost all Western philosophers

For other uses, see Plato (disambiguation).

Plato (ancient Greek: Πλάτων, Plátōn, "wide, broad-shouldered") (c. 427–c. 347 BC), whose real name is believed to have been Aristocles, was an immensely influential ancient Greek philosopher, writer of philosophical dialogues, and founder of the Academy in Athens where Aristotle studied. Plato is widely believed to have been a student of Socrates and to have been deeply influenced by his unjust execution.



The Platonic corpus is, like most collections of ancient literature, corrupt and disputed. His brilliance as a writer and thinker is proved in the core of his Socratic dialogues, but much of the material that is ascribed to him, including some dialogues, letters, and lawbooks is considered spurious. Plato is thought to have lectured at the Academy, although the pedagogical function of his dialogues, if any, is not known.



Contents [hide]

1 Plato's Dialogues

2 Plato & Socrates

3 Narration of the dialogues

4 Trial of Socrates

5 Unity & Diversity of the dialogues

6 The question of Socratic literacy

7 Biography

8 Work

9 Structure

10 Analogies & Themes

11 Metaphysics

12 Theory of Forms

13 Epistemology

14 The state

15 Platonic scholarship

16 Bibliography

16.1 Tetralogy

16.1.1 Tetralogies

16.1.2 Works not in Thrasyllus' tetralogies

16.2 Stephanus pagination

16.3 Chronology

16.3.1 Early dialogues

16.3.2 Middle dialogues

16.3.3 Late dialogues

16.4 Loeb Classical Library

17 See also

18 Footnotes

19 References

20 External links







[edit] Plato's Dialogues

Plato's dialogues are a collection of conversations that Socrates has with a great variety of male characters, young and old, obscure and well-known, foreign and Athenian. The dialogues often employ and refer to actual historical characters from the late fifth and early fourth centuries BC. Well known sophists, political and military figures, businessmen and soothsayers, as well as writers and thinkers of every stripe - rhetors, poets, playwrights, speechmakers, and philosophers participate directly or indirectly in the dialogues. Next to Homer's epic poems, Plato's dialogues are perhaps the single most important body of literature in the canon of Western classics.



Socrates is believed to have been an actual living personage, but how much of any given dialogue is historically accurate is heavily disputed. Socrates himself did not write anything, and no objective (non-literary) record of his life and/or philosophy exists. Besides Plato's dialogues, only two other sources of information about Socrates are extant, and these raise more questions than they resolve. The celebrated comic playwright Aristophanes refers disparagingly to Socrates in several dialogues, and in one play, The Clouds, he is a lead character, a bamboozler-sophist who is head of an ancient think tank that teaches immoral logic. The third source is the inferior writings of Xenophon, whose Socratic dialogues are not thought to provide insight into the Socratic problem: who was Socrates, what exactly did he teach and to whom, what was his relation to Plato, and why did Athens put him to death, if indeed they did.[citation needed]





[edit] Plato & Socrates

Plato hints that he was part of the Socratic entourage but never says so explicitly. In the Phaedo the title character lists those who were in attendance at the prison on Socrates' last day and says "Plato was ill" (Phaedo 59b). In the Apology, Plato distances himself from the inner circle. Socrates says there that the brothers of several of his former associates are in the audience. He says that Plato, brother to Adeimantus, was present (Apology 34a). Adeimantus appears in the Republic as a disputant.





[edit] Narration of the dialogues

Plato never presents himself as a participant in any of the dialogues, and with the exception of the Apology, he does not claim to have heard any of the dialogues firsthand. Some dialogs have no narrator (examples: Meno, Gorgias, Phaedrus, Crito, Euthyphro), some dialogs are narrated by Socrates, wherein he speaks in first person (examples: Lysis, Charmides, Apology, Republic). In one dialog, Protagoras, Socrates narrates to an unnamed friend a conversation he had previously with the sophist whose name gives title to the dialogue.



Three dialogues, Phaedo, Symposium, and Theaetetus, are narrated by disciples of Socrates, and all, apparently, from distant memories. Phaedo, an account of Socrates' final conversation and hemlock drinking, is narrated by Phaedo to Echecrates in a foreign city many years after the execution took place. The Symposium is narrated by by Apollodorus, a Socratic disciple, apparently to Glaucon. Apollodorus assures his listener that he is recounting the story, which took place when he himself was an infant, not to the best of his own memory, but to the best memory of Aristodemus, who told him the story years ago. In the Theaetetus (142c-143b), Euclides says that he compiled the conversation from notes he took based on what Socrates told him of his conversation with the title character. With the exception of the Theaetetus, Plato gives no hint as to how these orally transmitted conversations came to be written down, least of all, by himself.



Plato's absence from the dialogues is at odds with traditional belief that he was a disciple and part of the inner circle. The question of why Plato distances himself from three of his greatest dialogs explicitly by time, place, and authorship has never been satisfactorily answered.



Tradition tends to see Plato as writing a kind of "psuedo-history" of the life of Socrates, but the chronologies of the characters are inconsistent. For example, Alcibiades is a said to be a beardless young man in Protagoras, and Socrates is associating also with the son of Apollodorus, Hippocrates. In the Symposium, where Alcibiades is the older lover of Agathon, Apollodorus is a young man. Chronological discrepencies like this cannot be easily reconciled with the view that Plato is an historical writer in the modern sense.



Plato's dialogues bear at least some similarities to the classical plays, in having no more than three speakers "on stage" (speaking) at one time, and in often having "a chorus" of (silent) listeners.





[edit] Trial of Socrates

The trial of Socrates is the central, unifying event of the great Socratic dialogues. Because of this, Socrates' Apology is perhaps the most often read of the dialogues. In the Apology, Socrates tries to dismiss rumors that he is a sophist, a wise man, and defends himself against charges of atheism and corruption of the young. Socrates insists that long-standing slander will be the real cause of his demise, and says the legal charges are essentially phony. Socrates famously denies being wise, and explains how his career as a philosopher was launched by the oracle at Delphi. He says that his quest to resolve the riddle of the oracle put him at odds with his fellow man, and is the reason he has been mistaken for a menace to society.



The trial of Socrates is anomalous: from what is known about Athens in the fifth century BCE, it should not have taken place (see Gorgias 461e and Crito 45e). Atheism was not a crime in free-speech Athens. It was not even unusual among intellectuals, nor condemned by the masses. The prize-winning plays of Aristophanes were not merely atheist, but made fun of the gods and their prophets and oracles. There is no record that Aristophanes was prosecuted for atheism, and some have speculated that comics enjoyed special immunities. However, there is no evidence of this. It is also puzzling that Socrates exonerates himself in large part by claiming to be sent on his philosophic mission by Apollo, an important figure in the standard Greek pantheon.



The charge of corruption of the young is harder to dismiss. Plato depicts Socrates as a flirt, and his romantic attentions are not confined to adults. One dialog in particular, the Charmides, pictures Socrates becoming aroused as the sight of a boy's private parts. The Apology gives no sense that the legal charges implied corruption of a sexual nature, and tradition interprets the corruption as moral/intellectual in nature. Socrates says in the Apology that he has merely advised the young men who are slanderously termed his disciples that they should care more about virtue than their careers, public service, or families. Attention to such things was the mark of virtue in ancient Athens. This "moral misunderstanding" has captivated history ever since Plato told the story.





[edit] Unity & Diversity of the dialogues

If Plato's important dialogues do not refer to the execution explicitly, they allude to it, or use characters or themes that play a part in it. Five dialogues foreshadow the trial: In the Theaetetus (210d) and the Euthyphro (2a–b) Socrates tells people that he is about to face corruption charges. In Meno (94e-95a), one of the men who brings legal charges against Socrates, Anytus, warns him about the trouble he may get into if he does not stop criticizing important people. In the Gorgias, Socrates says that his trial will be like a doctor prosecuted by a cook who asks a jury of children to choose between the doctor's bitter medicine and the cook's tasty treats (521e–522a). In the Republic (7.517e), Socrates explains why an enlightened man (presumably himself) will stumble in a courtroom situation. The Apology is Socrates' defense speech, and the Crito and Phaedo take place in prison after the conviction. In the Protagoras, Socrates is a guest at the home of Callias, son of Hipponicus, a man whom Socrates disparages in the Apology as having wasted a great amount of money on sophists' fees.



Two other important dialogues, the Symposium and the Phaedrus, are linked to the main storyline by characters. In the Apology (19b, c), Socrates says Aristophanes slandered him in a comic play, and blames him for causing his bad reputation, and ultimately, his death. In the Symposium, the two of them are drinking together with other friends. The character Phaedrus is linked to the main story line by character (Phaedrus is also a participant in the Symposium and the Protagoras) and by theme (the philosopher as divine emissary, etc.) The Protagoras is also strongly linked to the Symposium by characters: all of the formal speakers at the Symposium (with the exception of Aristophanes) are present at the home of Callias in that dialogue. Charmides and his guardian Critias are present for the discussion in the Protagoras. Examples of characters crossing between dialogues can be further multiplied. The Protagoras contains the largest gathering of Socratic associates.



In the dialogues for which Plato is most celebrated and admired, Socrates is concerned with human and political virtue, has a distinctive personality, and friends and enemies who "travel" with him from dialogue to dialogue. This is not to say that Socrates is consistent: he not only appears to contradict himself from dialog to dialog, he often appears to contradict himself within a single dialog.



Many other dialogues ascribed to Plato also use the Socratic character, but do not share this pronounced concern for virtue. In these dialogues, Plato uses Socrates as a mere name, a voice-marker who does not have the distinctive, self-depricating wit of the important dialogues. The metaphysical dialogues attributed to Plato do not contain material of human interest, but are very abstract and read by specialists.



The dialogues have been divided by influential scholarship into the early, middle and late periods. The late Princeton scholar and classist, Gregory Vlastos argued that the Euthyphro, Apology, Crito and Phaedo were written first and are a more or less historical record of the philosophy of the historical character Socrates. Vlastos argues that Plato's early dialogues represent Socratic philosophy, and that the middle and later dialogues can be counted on to give the reader Plato's own philosophy.[citation needed] This division of the dialogues is not indicated by the dialogues themselves.





[edit] The question of Socratic literacy

Tradition has long puzzled over why Socrates did not leave a written legacy. The ancient Greeks had been highly literate for several hundred years before the Golden Age of Greece. Entire works and fragments remain from dozens of poets, philosophers, scientists, and rhetoricians. Socrates left not even a single line, and in only one dialog indicates that he has ever personally put pen to paper. In Phaedo, Socrates tells his disciples that he has spent his last days in prison writing songs using material from Aesop's fables. Aesop's fables are little satires which employ animal characters and represent the low-end of Greek literature.



Plato hints that Socrates may have been only semi-literate.[citation needed] In the Phaedo, Socrates is reported to have said that he got his idea that mind is the cause of everything from a man who was reading a book out loud. He said the man told him the author was Anaxagoras (Phaedo 97c). This suggests that Socrates was not in a position to personally verify, but the reader is not told precisely why. In the Apology, Socrates seems to reject the wisdom of Anaxagoras, saying that his silly (atheist) ideas about the sun being a stone and the earth being a mass of earth, and not gods, can be purchased in the market for a drachma (Apology 26d,e).



Socrates is similarly (apparently) inconsistent in his attitude towards Homer, the most revered writer in classical Greece. He famously recommends in the Republic that favorites like Homer's Iliad and Odyssey be rewritten, and Homer be sent into exile (Repub. 3.398a,b). He avers here and later in the dialog that the more poetic and lovely writing is, the worse is its effect upon the soul. Socrates believes that the best literature gives unambiguous praise to good men, and criticism to bad men, and that anything else is confusing.



In the Phaedrus Socrates criticizes the innovation of writing because it implants forgetfulness in the soul of the reader and because writing so often gets into the hands of people who have no business with it (275a-e). This critical attitude towards literature comes from Socrates, whose ideas cannot be simply conflated with Plato's personal ideology. Plato's mastery of Greek is unquestionable: the grammatical and rhetorical structures of the dialogues are extremely complex; the arguments and analogies, stories and fables, and allusions and allegories are unmatched in cleverness; the wealth of his themes has no parallel, ancient or modern.





[edit] Biography

Plato is thought to have been born in Athens in May or December in 428 or 427 BC (like all the other early western philosophers, his birthdate is not exactly known). He was raised in a moderately well-to-do aristocratic family of four children. His father was named Ariston, and his mother Perictione. His family claimed descent from the ancient Athenian kings, and he was related – though there is disagreement as to exactly how – to the prominent politician Critias. According to a late Hellenistic account by Diogenes Laertius, Plato's given name was Aristocles, whereas his wrestling coach, Ariston of Argos, dubbed him "Platon", meaning "broad" on account of his robust figure. Diogenes mentions alternative accounts that Plato derived his name from the breadth (platutês) of his eloquence, or else because he was very wide (platus) across the forehead. According to Dicaearchus, Plato wrestled at the Isthmian games. Such was his learning and ability that the ancient Greeks declared him to be the son of Apollo and told how, in his infancy, bees had settled on his lips, as prophecy of the honeyed words which were to flow from them.



Plato may have traveled in Italy, Sicily, Egypt, and Cyrene. Said to have returned to Athens at the age of forty, Plato founded one of the earliest known organized schools in Western civilization on a plot of land in the Grove of Academe. The Academy was "a large enclosure of ground which was once the property of a citizen at Athens named Academus... some, however, say that it received its name from an ancient hero" (Robinson, Arch. Graec. I i 16), and it operated until 529 AD, when it was closed by Justinian I of Byzantium, who saw it as a threat to the propagation of Christianity. Many intellectuals were schooled in the Academy, the most prominent one being Aristotle.





[edit] Work



Raphael's Plato in The School of Athens fresco, probably in the likeness of Leonardo da Vinci. Plato gestures to the heavens, representing his belief in The Forms.

[edit] Structure

Some of Plato's dialogues are framed by human elements. The clearest example of this is Phaedo, wherein Socrates dismisses his wife Xanthippe from the prison at the beginning of the dialog, and again towards the end. The frame elements suggest that Socrates' relationship with his disciples, who mourn the loss of their spiritual "father" is more important to him than his biological family. In this dialogue, an entire chorus of people is said to be silently listening to a very long conversation, and apparently, saying nothing.



Other dialogs, such as Euthyphro and Crito, involve only two characters who are not said to be overheard by anyone else. The characters are meant to be compared and contrasted. Socrates is more like Euthyphro (whom he mocks) than he thinks. Both are pious men whose knowledge of god's will comes from different sources - Euthyphro reads myths and takes them literally, while Socrates relies on divine voices in his head). Socrates is less compatible with his friend Crito than he thinks, and even says that people who are so morally at odds ought to despise each other. Sometimes characters pop in and out of a dialogue, as a slave and an aristocrat (Anytus) in the Meno.



Two of Plato's dialogues are better described as monologues. The often-read Apology is as brilliant a speech as the little-read Menexenus is hackneyed. Other dialogs also seem to be literary twins: Gorgias and Protagoras depict Socrates being invited to converse with a well-known rhetorician who is visiting Athens. Lysis and Charmides both picture Socrates chatting with boys who are young enough to be attended by guardians. Phaedrus and Symposium are a pair of dialogues linked by the theme of man-boy love.





[edit] Analogies & Themes

The analogies in the dialogues are as interesting as the arguments, but less often noted. Socrates frequently compares ideas with children, and always disfavorably (Symposium 209a–e). He also compares them with food (Protag 313c–314c). Socrates repeatedly compares the philosopher, who cures the mind (psyche) of its worst ailment, ignorance, with a medical doctor (iatros). Today, doctors of the mind are called "psych-iatrists". Socrates compared the body to a prisonhouse for the soul, and promoted the distinction that remains today, that body and soul are hard to reconcile. Socrates also famously compares himself to a midwife to men and boys who are "pregnant with thought."



The arguments in the dialogues concern above all, human and political virtue. Under this rubric fall the discussions about piety, self-restraint, courage, friendship and love. A very frequent topic is the question of whether or not virtue can be taught, and what it is. Knowledge and opinion, perception and reality, nature and custom, body and soul, pleasure and pain, crime and punishment, are themes that appear in more than one dialogue. Immortality of the soul, the function of art and literature, rhetoric and rhapsody, the treatment of women and slaves, types of government; there is hardly a subject of human interest that did not interest Plato, and to which Plato did not bring timeless insights.





[edit] Metaphysics

Main article: Platonic realism



Detail of The School of Athens by Raffaello Sanzio, 1509, showing Plato (pointing upwards, as if to the Form of the Good) and Aristotle (holding his hand palm down to Earth, favouring material evidence).Platonism has traditionally been interpreted as a form of metaphysical dualism [citation needed], sometimes referred to as Platonic realism, and is regarded as one of the earlier representatives of metaphysical objective idealism.[1] According to this reading, Plato's metaphysics divides the world into two distinct aspects: the intelligible world of "forms", and the perceptual world we see around us. The perceptual world consists of imperfect copies of the intelligible forms or ideas. These forms are unchangeable and perfect, and are only comprehensible by the use of the intellect or understanding, that is, a capacity of the mind that does not include sense-perception or imagination. This division can also be found in Zoroastrian philosophy, in which the dichotomy is referenced as the Minu (intelligence) and Giti (perceptual) worlds. The Zoroastrian ideal city, Shahrivar, also exhibits certain similarities with Plato's Republic. The existence and direction of influence here is uncertain; while Zoroaster lived well before Plato, few of the earliest writings of Zoroastrianism survive unaltered.



In the Republic Books VI and VII, Plato uses a number of metaphors to explain his metaphysical views: the metaphor of the sun, the well-known allegory of the cave, and most explicitly, the divided line.



Taken together, these metaphors convey a complex, and, in places,difficult theory: there is something called The Form of the Good or Idea of the Good (often interpreted as Plato's god), which is the ultimate object of knowledge and which, as it were, sheds light on all the other forms (i.e., universals: abstract kinds and attributes), and from which all other forms "emanate". The Form of the Good does this in somewhat the same way as the sun sheds light on, or makes visible and "generates" things, in the perceptual world.



In the perceptual world, the particular objects we see around us bear only a dim resemblance to the more ultimately real forms of Plato's intelligible world; it is as if we are seeing shadows of cut-out shapes on the walls of a cave, which are mere representations of the reality outside the cave, illuminated by the sun.



We can imagine everything in the universe represented on a line of increasing reality; it is divided once unevenly, and then once again in each of the resulting parts in the same ratio as the first division (Regardless of the ratio, the two middle sections of the line are equal). The first division represents that between the intelligible and the perceptual worlds. This is followed by a corresponding division in each of these worlds: the segment representing the perceptual world is divided into segments representing "real things" on the one hand, and shadows, reflections, and representations of those things on the other. Similarly, the segment representing the intelligible world is divided into segments representing first principles and most general forms, on the one hand, and more derivative, "reflected" forms, on the other. (See the divided line of Plato)



Plato's metaphysics, and particularly its dualism between the intelligible and the perceptual, would inspire later Neoplatonist thinkers, such as Plotinus and Gnostics, and many other metaphysical realists. Although Platonist philosophers like Plotinus rejected Gnosticism (see Plotinus' Enneads). One reason being the Gnostic vilification of nature and Plato's demiurge from Timaeus. Plato also influenced Saint Justin Martyr. For more on Platonic realism in general, see Platonic realism and the Forms.



Although this interpretation of Plato's writings (particularly the Republic) has enjoyed immense popularity throughout the long history of Western philosophy, it is also possible to interpret his suggestions more conservatively, favoring a more epistemological than metaphysical reading of such famous metaphors as the Cave and the Divided Line. There are obvious parallels between the Cave allegory and the life of Plato's teacher Socrates (who was killed in his attempt to "open the eyes" of the Athenians). This example reveals the dramatic complexity that often lies under the surface of Plato's writing (remember that in the Republic, it is Socrates who relates the story).





[edit] Theory of Forms

Main article: Theory of Forms

Plato's Theory of Forms indicates that the sensory world that is the reality, which we as human beings experience, is only a shadow of a higher realm. In this higher realm, Plato assures us that there exist the Forms that embody the true nature of the pale shadows. What we know as sweet is only an afterimage of the Form of Sweetness. The luminous brightness of the sun is only a corporeal display of the Form of Brightness.



The Forms should be understood as immortal things. That is to say static, perfect and unchanging. As they are the perfect quintessence, they have no reason to change or evolve. With this reasoning, and following Plato’s logic, one could infer an even higher state of promulgation that could be considered the Ultimate Form, or the Form of Perfection. This is one quality which all Forms share in, and that all Form impersonations in the sensory world lack. Later Christian Neo-Platonists would identify the Ultimate Form with God.





[edit] Epistemology

Main article: Platonic epistemology

Plato also had some influential opinions on the nature of knowledge and learning which he propounded in the Meno, which began with the question of whether virtue can be taught, and proceeded to expound the concepts of recollection, learning as the discovery of pre-existing knowledge, and right opinion, opinions which are correct but have no clear justification.



Plato stated that knowledge is essentially justified true belief, an influential belief which informed future developments in epistemology. In the Theaetetus Plato argued that belief is to be distinguished from knowledge on account of justification. Many years later, Edmund Gettier famously demonstrated the problems of the justified true belief account of knowledge. In the Sophist and the Statesman Plato associates knowledge with the knowledge of the kinds and the Forms as well as of their ability of blending, which he calls expertise in Dialectic.





[edit] The state

Plato's philosophical views had many societal implications, especially on the idea of an ideal state or government. There is some discrepancy between his early and later views. Some of the most famous doctrines are contained in the Republic during his middle period, as well as in the Laws and the Statesman. However, because Plato wrote dialogues, it is assumed that Socrates is often speaking for Plato. This assumption may not be true in all cases.



Plato, through the words of Socrates, asserts that societies have a tripartite class structure corresponding to the appetite/spirit/reason structure of the individual soul.



Productive (Workers) — the labourers, carpenters, plumbers, masons, merchants, farmers, ranchers, etc. These correspond to the "appetite" part of the soul.

Protective (Warriors or Auxiliaries) — those who are adventurous, strong and brave; in the armed forces. These correspond to the "spirit" part of the soul.

Governing (Rulers or Guardians) — those who are intelligent, rational, self-controlled, in love with wisdom, well suited to make decisions for the community. These correspond to the "reason" part of the soul and are very few.

According to this model, the principles of Athenian democracy (as it existed in his day) are rejected as only a few are fit to rule. Instead of rhetoric and persuasion, Plato says reason and wisdom should govern. This does not equate to tyranny, despotism, or oligarchy, however. As Plato puts it:



"Until philosophers rule as kings or those who are now called kings and leading men genuinely and adequately philosophise, that is, until political power and philosophy entirely coincide, while the many natures who at present pursue either one exclusively are forcibly prevented from doing so, cities will have no rest from evils,... nor, I think, will the human race." (Republic 473c-d)

Plato describes these "philosopher kings" as "those who love the sight of truth" (Republic 475c) and supports the idea with the analogy of a captain and his ship or a doctor and his medicine. Sailing and health are not things that everyone is qualified to practice by nature. A large part of the Republic then addresses how the educational system should be set up to produce these philosopher kings.



However, it must be taken into account that the ideal city outlined in the Republic is qualified by Socrates as the ideal luxurious city, examined to determine how it is that injustice and justice grow in a city (Republic 372e). According to Socrates, the "true" and "healthy" city is instead the one first outlined in book II of the Republic, 369c–372d, containing farmers, craftsmen, merchants, and wage-earners, but lacking the guardian class of philosopher-kings as well as delicacies such as "perfumed oils, incense, prostitutes, and pastries", in addition to paintings, gold, ivory, couches, a multitude of occupations such as poets and hunters, and war.



In addition, the ideal city is used as an image to illuminate the state of one's soul, or the will, reason, and desires combined in the human body. Socrates is attempting to make an image of a rightly ordered human, and then later goes on to describe the different kinds of humans that can be observed, from tyrants to lovers of money in various kinds of cities. The ideal city is not promoted, but only used to magnify the different kinds of individual humans and the state of their soul. However, the philosopher king image was used by many after Plato to justify their personal political beliefs. The philosophic soul according to Socrates has reason, will, and desires united in virtuous harmony. A philosopher has the moderate love for wisdom and the courage to act according to wisdom. Wisdom is knowledge about the Good or the right relations between all that exists.



Wherein it concerns states and rulers, Plato has made interesting arguments. For instance he asks which is better - a bad democracy or a country reigned by a tyrant. He argues that it is better to be ruled by a bad tyrant (since then there is only one person committing bad deeds) than be a bad democracy (since here all the people are now responsible for such actions.)



According to Socrates a state, which is made up of different kinds of souls, will overall decline from an aristocracy to a timocracy, then to an oligarchy, then to a democracy, and finally to tyranny. Perhaps Plato is trying to warn us of the various kinds of immoderate souls that can rule over a state, and what kind of wise souls are best to advise and give counsel to the rulers that are often lovers of power, money, fame, and popularity.





[edit] Platonic scholarship



"The safest general characterisation of the European philosophical tradition is that it consists of a series of footnotes to Plato." (Alfred North Whitehead, Process and Reality, 1929).Plato's thought is often compared with that of his most famous student, Aristotle, whose reputation during the Western Middle Ages so completely eclipsed that of Plato that the Scholastic philosophers referred to Aristotle as "the Philosopher". However, in the Byzantine Empire, the study of Plato continued.



The Medieval scholastic philosophers did not have access to the works of Plato, nor the knowledge of Greek needed to read them. Plato's original writings were essentially lost to Western civilization until they were brought from Constantinople in the century before its fall, by George Gemistos Plethon. Medieval scholars knew of Plato only through translations into Latin from the translations into Arabic by Persian and Arab scholars. These scholars not only translated the texts of the ancients, but expanded them by writing extensive commentaries and interpretations on Plato's and Aristotle's works (see Al-Farabi, Avicenna, Averroes).



Only in the Renaissance, with the general resurgence of interest in classical civilization, did knowledge of Plato's philosophy become widespread again in the West. Many of the greatest early modern scientists and artists who broke with Scholasticism and fostered the flowering of the Renaissance, with the support of the Plato-inspired Lorenzo de Medici, saw Plato's philosophy as the basis for progress in the arts and sciences. By the 19th century, Plato's reputation was restored, and at least on par with Aristotle's.



Notable Western philosophers have continued to draw upon Plato's work since that time. Plato's influence has been especially strong in mathematics and the sciences. It inspired the greatest advances in logic since Aristotle, due to Gottlob Frege and his followers Kurt Gödel, Alonzo Church, and Alfred Tarski, the last of whom summarised his approach by reversing Aristotle's famous declaration of sedition from the Nicomachean Ethics (1096a15: Amicus Plato sed magis amica veritas): Inimicus Plato sed magis amica veritas ("Plato is a friend, but truth is yet a greater friend"). Albert Einstein drew on Plato's understanding of an immutable reality that underlies the flux of appearances for his objections to the probabilistic picture of the physical universe propounded by Niels Bohr in his interpretation of quantum mechanics. Conversely, thinkers that diverged from ontological models and moral ideals in their own philosophy, have tended to disparage Platonism from more or less informed perspectives. Thus Friedrich Nietzsche attacked Plato's moral and political theories, Martin Heidegger argued against Plato's alleged obfuscation of Being, and Karl Popper argued in The Open Society and Its Enemies (1945) that Plato's alleged proposal for a government system in the Republic was prototypically totalitarian. Leo Strauss is considered by some as the prime thinker involved in the recovery of Platonic thought in its more political, and less metaphysical, form. Deeply influenced by Nietzsche and Heidegger, Strauss nonetheless rejects their condemnation of Plato and looks to the dialogues for a solution to what all three thinkers acknowledge as 'the crisis of the West.'





[edit] Bibliography

Plato's writings (most of them dialogues) have been published in several fashions; this has led to several conventions regarding the naming and referencing of Plato's texts.



Those works ascribed to Plato that have a separate Wikipedia article can be found in Category:Dialogues of Plato





[edit] Tetralogy

One tradition regarding the arrangement of Plato's texts is according to tetralogies. This scheme is ascribed by Diogenes Laertius to an ancient scholar and court astrologer to Tiberius named Thrasyllus.



In the list below, works by Plato are marked (1) if there is no consensus among scholars as to whether Plato is the author, and (2) if scholars generally agree that Plato is not the author of the work. Unmarked works are assumed to have been written by Plato.





[edit] Tetralogies

I. Euthyphro, (The) Apology (of Socrates), Crito, Phaedo

II. Cratylus, Theaetetus, Sophist, Statesman

III. Parmenides, Philebus, (The) Symposium, Phaedrus

IV. First Alcibiades (1), Second Alcibiades (2), Hipparchus (2), (The) (Rival) Lovers (2)

V. Theages (2), Charmides, Laches, Lysis

VI. Euthydemus, Protagoras, Gorgias, Meno

VII. (Greater) Hippias (major) (1), (Lesser) Hippias (minor), Ion, Menexenus

VIII. Clitophon (1), (The) Republic, Timaeus, Critias

IX. Minos (2), (The) Laws, Epinomis (2), Seventh Letter (1).



[edit] Works not in Thrasyllus' tetralogies

The remaining works were transmitted under Plato's name, most of them already considered spurious in antiquity, and so were not included by Thrasyllus in his tetralogical arrangement. These works are labelled as Notheuomenoi ("spurious") or Apocrypha.



Axiochus (2), Definitions (2), Demodocus (2), Epigrams, Eryxias (2), Halcyon (2), On Justice (2), On Virtue (2), Sisyphus (2).



[edit] Stephanus pagination

The usual system for making unique references to sections of the text by Plato derives from a 16th century edition of Plato's works by Henricus Stephanus. An overview of Plato's writings according to this system can be found in the Stephanus pagination article.





[edit] Chronology

The exact order in which Plato's dialogues were written is not known, nor is the extent to which some might have been later revised and rewritten. However, according to modern linguistic theory there is enough information internal to the dialogues to form a rough chronology. The dialogues are normally grouped into three fairly distinct periods, with a few of them considered transitional works, and some just difficult to place. Friedrich Schleiermacher, whose translation of Plato into German still stands uncontested in Germany, is very likely the first to have divided Plato's dialogues into three distinct periods. However, his ordering is quite different from the modern one, and rather than being based upon philology, he claims to have traced Plato's philosophical development. Schleiermacher divides the dialogues thus:



Foundation: Phaedrus, Lysis, Protagoras, Laches, Charmides, Euthyphro, Parmenides;

Transition: Gorgias, Theaetetus, Meno, Euthydemus, Cratylus, Sophist, Statesman, Symposium, Phaedo, Philebus

Culmination: The Republic, (Critias, Timaeus, The Laws)

The final three dialogues above, in parentheses, were not translated by Schleiermacher, though ten other dialogues (including Ion, etc.) were translated and deemed spurious. Finally, Schleiermacher maintained that the Apology and probably the Crito were Plato's memory of Socrates' actual words.



Lewis Campbell was the first to make exhaustive use of stylometry to prove objectively that the Critias, Timaeus, Laws, Philebus, Sophist, and Statesman were all clustered together as a group, while the Parmenides, Phaedrus, Republic, and Theaetetus belong to a separate group, which must be earlier (given Aristotle's statement in his Politics[2] that the Laws was written after the Republic; cf. Diogenes Laertius Lives 3.37).



Many of the positions in the ordering are still highly disputed. The generally agreed upon modern ordering is as follows.





[edit] Early dialogues

Socrates figures in all of these, and they are considered the most faithful representations of the historical Socrates; hence they are also called the Socratic dialogues. Most of them consist of Socrates discussing a subject, often an ethical one (friendship, piety) with a friend or with someone presumed to be an expert on it. Through a series of questions he will show that apparently they don't understand it at all. It is left to the reader to figure out if "he" really understands "it". This makes these dialogues "indirect" teachings. This period also includes several pieces surrounding the trial and execution of Socrates.



Apology

Crito

Charmides

Laches

Lysis

Euthyphro

Menexenus

Lesser Hippias

Ion

The following are variously considered transitional or middle period dialogues:



Gorgias

Protagoras

Meno



[edit] Middle dialogues

Late in the early dialogues Plato's Socrates actually begins supplying answers to some of the questions he asks, or putting forth positive doctrines. This is generally seen as the first appearance of Plato's own views. The first of these, that goodness is wisdom and that no one does evil willingly, was perhaps Socrates' own view. What becomes most prominent in the middle dialogues is the idea that knowledge comes of grasping unchanging forms or essences, paired with the attempts to investigate such essences. The immortality of the soul, and specific doctrines about justice, truth, and beauty, begin appearing here. The Symposium and the Republic are considered the centrepieces of Plato's middle period.



Euthydemus

Cratylus

Phaedo

Phaedrus

Symposium

Republic

Theaetetus

Parmenides



[edit] Late dialogues

The Parmenides presents a series of criticisms of the theory of Forms which are widely taken to indicate Plato's abandonment of the doctrine. Some recent publications (e.g., Meinwald (1991)) have challenged this characterisation. In most of the remaining dialogues the theory is either absent or at least appears under a different guise in discussions about kinds or classes of things (the Timaeus may be an important, and hence controversially placed, exception). Socrates is either absent or a minor figure in the discussion. An apparently new method for doing dialectic known as "collection and division" is also featured, most notably in the Sophist and Statesman, explicitly for the first time in the Phaedrus, and possibly in the Philebus. A basic description of collection and division would go as follows: interlocutors attempt to discern the similarities and differences among things in order to get clear idea about what they in fact are. One understanding, suggested in some passages of the Sophist, is that this is what philosophy is always in the business of doing, and is doing even in the early dialogues.



The late dialogues are also an important place to look for Plato's mature thought on most of the issues dealt with in the earlier dialogues. There is much work still to be done by scholars on the working out of what these views are. The later works are agreed to be difficult and challenging pieces of philosophy. On the whole they are more sober and logical than earlier works, but may hold out the promise of steps towards a solution to problems which were systematically laid out in prior works.



Sophist

Statesman

Philebus

Timaeus

Critias

Laws



[edit] Loeb Classical Library

James Loeb provided a very popular edition of Plato's works, still in print in the 21st century: see Loeb Classical Library#Plato for how Plato's works were named in Loeb's publications.



Academic Genealogy

Notable teachers Notable students

Socrates Aristotle

Theophrastus





[edit] See also

Wikisource has original text related to this article:

ΠλάτωνWikiquote has a collection of quotations related to:

PlatoGreek texts

Important publications in Western philosophy

Mitchell Miller

Eric A. Havelock

Alexander Nehamas

Platonic love

The Seventh Letter of Plato



[edit] Footnotes

^ [1]

^ 1264b24-27



[edit] References

Bakalis, Nikolaos (2005). Handbook of Greek Philosophy: From Thales to the Stoics Analysis and Fragments, Trafford Publishing ISBN 1-4120-4843-5

Cooper, John M. & Hutchinson, D. S. (Eds.) (1997). Plato: Complete Works. Hackett Publishing Co., Inc. ISBN 0-87220-349-2.

Durant, Will (1926). The Story of Philosophy. Simon & Schuster. ISBN 0-671-69500-2.

Fine, Gail (2000). Plato 1: Metaphysics and Epistemology Oxford University Press, USA, ISBN 0-19-875206-7

Guthrie, W. K. C. (1986). A History of Greek Philosophy (Plato - The Man & His Dialogues - Earlier Period), Cambridge University Press, ISBN 0-521-31101-2

Guthrie, W. K. C. (1986). A History of Greek Philosophy (Later Plato & the Academy) Cambridge University Press, ISBN 0-521-31102-0

Havelock, Eric (2005). Preface to Plato (History of the Greek Mind), Belknap Press, ISBN 0-674-69906-8

Hamilton, Edith & Cairns, Huntington (Eds.) (1961). The Collected Dialogues of Plato, Including the Letters. Princeton Univ. Press. ISBN 0-691-09718-6.

Irwin, Terence (1995). Plato's Ethics, Oxford University Press, USA, ISBN 0-19-508645-7

Lundberg, Phillip (2005). Tallyho - The Hunt for Virtue: Beauty, Truth and Goodness - Nine Dialogues by Plato. AuthorHouse. ISBN 1-4184-4976-8.

Jackson, Roy (2001). Plato: A Beginner's Guide. London: Hoder & Stroughton. ISBN 0-340-80385-1.

Kraut, Richard (Ed.) (1993). The Cambridge Companion to Plato. Cambridge University Press. ISBN 0-521-43610-9.

Melchert, Norman (2002). The Great Conversation: A Historical Introduction to Philosophy. McGraw Hill. ISBN 0-19-517510-7.

Meinwald, Constance Chu (1991). Plato's Parmenides. Oxford University Press. ISBN 0-19-506445-3.

Sallis, John (1996). Being and Logos: Reading the Platonic Dialogues. Indiana University Press. ISBN 0-253-21071-2.

Sallis, John (1999). Chorology: On Beginning in Plato's "Timaeus". Indiana University Press. ISBN 0-253-21308-8.

Taylor, A. E. (2001). Plato: The Man and His Work, Dover Publications, ISBN 0-486-41605-4

Vlastos, Gregory (1981). Platonic Studies, Princeton University Press, ISBN 0-691-10021-7

Oxford University Press publishes scholarly editions of Plato's Greek texts in the Oxford Classical Texts series, and some translations in the Clarendon Plato Series.

Harvard University Press publishes the hardbound series Loeb Classical Library, containing Plato's works in Greek, with English translations on facing pages.

Smith, William. (1867 — original). Dictionary of Greek and Roman Biography and Mythology. University of Michigan/Online version.

Aspects of antiquity: Discoveries and Controversies by M.I. Finley, issued 1969 by The Viking Press, Inc.

Interpreting Plato: The Dialogues as Drama by James A. Arieti, Rowman & Littlefield Publishers, Inc. ISBN 0-8476-7662-5



[edit] External links

Wikimedia Commons has media related to:

Plato

Works by Plato at Project Gutenberg

Works by Plato at Project Gutenberg

Spurious and doubtful works at Project Gutenberg

Plato complete works, annotated and searchable, at ELPENOR

Plato's seventh letter

Plato Works by Plato at PP

A free audiobook of Plato's Euthyphro

Complete Dialogues, Letters and Epigrams of Plato Online, with multiple English translations

Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy:

Plato

Plato's Ethics

Friendship and Eros

Middle Period Metaphysics and Epistemology

Plato on Utopia

Rhetoric and Poetry

Other Articles:

Excerpt from W.K.C. Guthrie, A History of Greek Philosophy, vol. IV, Plato: the man and his dialogues, earlier period, Cambridge University Press, 1989, pp. 8-38

Website on Plato and his works: Plato and his dialogues by Bernard Suzanne

Are there really Platonic forms?

"Plato and Totalitarianism: A Documentary Study"

Persondata

NAME Plato

ALTERNATIVE NAMES Aristocles, Plátōn, Πλάτων (Greek)

SHORT DESCRIPTION Greek philosopher, a student of Socrates, writer of philosophical dialogues, and founder of the Academy

DATE OF BIRTH c. 427 BC

PLACE OF BIRTH Athens

DATE OF DEATH c. 347 BC

PLACE OF DEATH





Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plato"

Categories: Articles with unsourced statements | Platonism | Ancient Greek philosophers | Philosophers of language | Philosophers of law | Political philosophers | Ancient Greek physicists | Ancient Athenians | Ancient Greek vegetarians | 427 BC births | 347 BC deaths



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