Is it actually possible for one to experience something with the ego being absent?

Question

I'm at the moment am reading The Doors of Perception and there is one concept that I am having a hard time getting my head around at the moment. Aldous Huxley says this:

" I spent several minutes... not merly gazing at those bamboo legs, but actually being them-- or rather being myself in them: or to be more acurate(for "I" was not involved in this case, nor in a certain case were "they") being Not-self in the Not-self which was the chair."

In another passage(for it may be easier to understand than the former) he says "For persons are selves and, in one respect at least, I was now a Not-self, simultaneously percieving and being the Not-self of the things around me."

Is the "Self"(in refrence to the Not-self) that he is talking about the ego? and if so, is it actually possible to experience the world through a source other than the self? That is my ultimate question. Thank You:-)

Answer 1

The ego is the volitional force of every action of every man or woman. Freud called it the "executive" of the rational faculty. Rational egoism means nothing more than rational self-interest.



Admitting that one has an ego is not an admission that it is an evil thing, any more than admitting that one has a foot means one places it on the bums of deserving idiots.



This means that you can NOT experience ANYTHING if the ego is absent because even if you are the kind of person who moans and wails "Oh woe is me! I am nothing! I have no purpose in existence!"--guess what? It's your ego feeling bad.

Answer 2

The phrasing of your question is semantically impossible.



However, first there seems no relevant reason to distinguish the 'self' from the 'ego' - in fact, I don't know what it means to 'be' an 'ego,' but it is quite ordinary to 'have' an 'ego'.



If somthing is merely possible, it is - by definition - not actual, hence your phrasing of ' ... is it actually possible ...' is senseless, unless by 'actual' you just mean 'not impossible'.



Next, for something to be an object of experience, it has to be experienced by something. Experience is a relation between a subject and an object, a subject and a subject, or the subject and itself, which is simply an identity relation. It looks something like this:





a 'experiences' b

a 'experiences' a, is the same as " a 'experiences' itself ".



So, if experience requires there being a subject having the experiences, it is impossible to have it otherwise. There cannot just be 'experience' yet no subjects.



But, you did ask is it possible to have experience through a source other than the 'self'. Well, if you can conceive of other things that have the capacity to experience, then the answer is a simple "yes". If, however, you mean "can 'one' have an experience through something other than it 'self'? And to this, I'm afraid the answer is "no", simply because you are asking can "this particular subject have the experiences this particular subject does not have" and that is impossible. However, you might mean can the subject become something else other than 'itself', yet this too is problematic, for how would 'one' know it was 'itself, even after reflection, that it was the bearer of those particular experiences if it were not that very same subject...?

Answer 3

Sounds like mescaline or some similar mind blowing drug. I guess the "not-self" would be a confusion of how you feel and how something looks, giving the experience of feeling like "bamboo legs"

If you think about it, you do actually "feel" your visual perception the same as you are aware of anything else. It's not like his ego would actually be absent, it just feels all bamboo legs at the moment, and I'm really getting into the wallpaper man...



edit: Alan Turing, I'd say a better reason not to do LSD is because either you never come down, or you realise you have always been tripping. I'm not sure which, but I know that what has been seen cannot be unseen.

Answer 4

Yes, the ego and the self are the same thing.



Aldous was experiencing the absence of the ego from the effects of LSD. It is rare but others have experienced the absence of the ego without taking drugs. I have had that experience myself although the event would take too much time to relate here. It was the results of metabolic shock.



With the ego eliminated you have absolutely no fear, which indicates that fear and the ego (self) are tightly interrelated. In fact, when my ego (self) was eliminated it was an absolutely joyous experience. I was no longer "Alan Turing" (not my real name). My impression is that a lot of energy is used to maintain our selves in our bodies. All that energy is released in an entirely pleasurable way when the ego is suddenly eliminated. Aldous didn't experience the sudden loss of self as LSD takes time to produce its effects. So for Aldous the self was gradually eliminated.



When the ego is eliminated there is still awareness and creativity processes in your mind. In other words, awareness is not the same thing as the self. But the awareness is totally non-judgmental. You could care less whither you live or die; both are equally attractive and possible. This is the reason why one should never take LSD by themselves. Not only is it now illegal (it wasn't when Aldous took it) but you need someone as an observer who does not take LSD to monitor the person taking it to prevent them from doing something dangerous.



This illustrates why we have an ego or self. The main function of the self in our bodies is to protect ourselves from possible danger. The self is not very smart however. It is there to prolong the life of the body as much as possible, its evolutionary function. It is easily confused by promises of eternal life from religions. Most people's selves are unable to realize that a promise of eternal life is not verifiable. And that is the reason why we have such absurd religions dominating societies.



Those eastern religions that attempt to eliminate the ego also know that the ego is a necessary part of the human mind. Necessary to keep us alive.



Aldous L. Huxley wrote two books on his experiences. In addition to "The Doors of Perception" he also wrote "Heaven and Hell" in which he explored the heights and depths of human awareness. I think he misinterpreted what was happening. I've read everything he ever wrote and have a great deal of admiration for him. I even wrote an essay once comparing his philosophy to that of his grandfather, Thomas Henry Huxley.



Note to Mantrid: The myths of LSD abound. Flashbacks may occur with a few mentally unstable people but not most. To worry about the unseen being seen is to worry about knowledge. It is not a very strong argument for ignorance. But I don't want to be intrepreted as advocating breaking any laws.



Note to Yaoi Shonen-ai: Freudian psychology has generally been discredited as a quack science that cannot be verified. I can assure you that you can still have awareness after the ego is eliminated just from my own personal experience.



Oh, I should mention that the chemist, Dr. Hoffmann, who discovered Lysergic Acid Diethylamide died a few weeks ago. He took the first LSD "trip" on his bike on the way home from the lab after he accidentally took a micogram amount of the chemical. I corresponded with him briefly many years ago. Very pleasant gentleman.

Answer 5

It is not as complex as he describes it.



If you accept that the ego is the conditioned identity or software of the mind/body system. Memories are stored as beliefs in the subconscious and emotional electro-chemistry which control the perceptions, feelings, thoughts and reactions.



However, YOU - as evolved consciousness which survives the body - can become the OBSERVER of reality and the cause and effect patterns of ego reactions. If you choose to examine and discard the beliefs that control ego MISperception, you transcend (in theological terms) the conditioned identity and return to 'being.'



This is sometimes called enlightenment or metanoia. With that clarity of perception you return to the authentic Self (reunite with the essential nature) AND continue having experiences from that state of consciousness. You only give up the ego's misery.

Answer 6

I don't have much time to answer, but I just wanted to post this piece on usage of the inner senses...I'm somewhat familiar with them and Huxley was using his during his experience...





Inner Vibrational Touch

"Think of the inner senses as paths leading to an inner reality. The first sense involves perception of a direct nature---instant cognition

through what I can only describe as inner vibrational touch. Imagine a man standing on a typical street of houses and grass and trees.

This sense would permit him to feel the basic

sensations felt by each of the trees around him. His consciousness would expand to contain the experience of what it is like to be a tree---any or all of the trees. He would feel the experience of BEING anything he chose within

his field of notice: people, insects, blades of grass. He would not lose consciousness of who he was, but he would perceive these sensations in much the same way that you now feel heat and cold." The Seth Material, by Jane Roberts.

Answer 7

Nope... perception is what you are thinking of others...is what you are trying to understand things around you....

It means if you want to understand others be with them...be like them... deny your self for a moment.... and be what others are...Example... sometimes white doesn't understand black is some cases... how they are as person.... so to understand the thinking of black or white.. you must be therm. you must be white nor black...be them personally. it is not a matter of ego.. it is a matter of be like them for you to understand them..You're perception of how you look things and what you believe in that moment will change because you will understand everything that surrounded you. because you become one of them.

there is a film of Pierre Brosnan..who was a British General.. and fell in love with an Indian Girl.... At that time British was colonizing Indian land.... But Pierre with a kind heart become one of the natives... and then he understand what the natives are fighting for.... and he become one of them...so his perception about Indians did change... once you become one of them

That is what you are asking about....good luck

Answer 8

The notion of experience drops away upon realization. I have a hard time getting my head wrapped around the concept too, hence no answer, can offer a good link though.

Answer 9

Unconditional love is an acceptance without ego.

Answer 10

Sounds like walt disney and is supposed to be interpreted as Imagination.

Answer 11

~YES~ You, the real you is the source of everything and everything is you. : )